Interview on The Second World (WTOP Radio, DC)

Author Parag Khanna discusses foreign affairs and his new book, "The Second World," with WTOP Radio in Washington, DC. Please find the transcript below, and audio of the interview linked as an attachment at the bottom of the page. Visit WTOP.com for more news.

WTOP: A lot of people call the United States the last remaining superpower. But what if there are others, all fighting for the same territory and resources. As we’ve learned all too well in recent years, actions thousands of miles away can directly affect our lives here in Washington and in other parts of the country. On the line with us this morning, Parag Khanna, author of the new book The Second World. Thanks for being with us this morning.

Parag Khanna: Thank you!

WTOP: Now you argue in your book that the US is not the only “big kid” in town: there’s also the European Union and China. Why those three, and what are their roles?

Parag Khanna: Those are the three superpowers today that have global ambitions. They are reaching around the world for resources, for influence, to export their goods, to promote their political models. And they’re doing it everywhere in the world, whether you’re in Argentina, or you’re in South Africa, or Australia, in the far corners of the planet. People are talking about, and they’re affected by what America, Europe, and China do – not by India, not by Russia, not by Japan, but by those “Big Three” as I call them.

WTOP: Why not Russia?

Parag Khanna: Well, Russia used to, of course, when it was, the Soviet Union was a superpower and did have global ambition and global reach. It doesn’t do any of those things today. It doesn’t attempt to – it certainly causes a lot of trouble in Eastern Europe and its own former republics in central Asia, but it doesn’t have that global sort of reach any more. Its economy isn’t much larger than that of France or South Korea.

WTOP: The Second World, the title of your book, refers to Latin America, the former Soviet block, the Middle East, and Asia. Do these regions have a say in what happens to their resources and their people?

Parag Khanna: They do increasingly, which is why my book is really about them; it’s not about us. It’s about understanding them; what they want; what wherewithal they’re putting together diplomatically and strategically; and the ways in which they’re playing all sides (by all sides I mean America, Europe, and China) off each other, to get what they want, to get the highest price for their goods, and to have us bid for their loyalty. And so the book is really sort of biographies in a way of these really strategic second world countries in all the regions you mentioned.

WTOP: Now to understand the scenario you’re describing, maybe we all need to look as far as the local gas station. Do you see the costs of most everything going up, and is it a result of this new global order you describe?

Parag Khanna: Well the cost of different things are going to go up or down, the fact is that because of out-sourcing, we have a lot of goods that are cheaper than they were before, and the ways in which second world or even third world economies are coming up and becoming huge commercial or production hubs does hold the potential for a lot of other things to get cheaper, like electronics and so on. Gas prices, of course, are up not only because of growing demand from China and India and other places, but also because of political tensions. Both of those things could change, and that’s going to change and affect the price of oil. So everything, you know the price of everything will change, but I always point out that this is not just a challenge for the United States because other places become more powerful, but also an opportunity. As other countries get richer, those are greater markets for us to export to. The number of American companies, including especially Fortune 500 companies and the like, whose profits increasingly depend on sales overseas is really growing.

WTOP: Let’s look at the Big Three again: the US, the EU, and China. Who among those has the upper hand now, and how well is the US playing ball in this new order that you describe?

Parag Khanna: The upper hand always depends on where: unless you’re just taking a static chart and saying who spends the most, and who has the biggest military, and who can do the most damage, then we win, hands down, and we will for a very long time. But that’s not what influence is built on around the world. It has a lot to do with where we are. Our influence in East Asia used to be really dominant: our alliances with Japan and South Korea were ironclad. But that’s China’s backyard: China’s doing a lot to weaken our alliances with them and to strengthen its relations. And we used to have a strong alliance with Turkey, but now the European Union’s pull on Turkey, which is a very strategic country, is very great. Saudi Arabia’s another country that used to be considered America’s firmest ally in the region, but now it’s dealing a lot more with the European Union: there’s going to be a free trade area between the EU and the Gulf Cooperation Council, the GTC, and oil might be priced in euros for those markets. So we’re seeing that depending on where you look in the world, America is competing with Europe and China.

WTOP: What do you expect to happen in Iraq?

Parag Khanna: I expect that eventually, irrespective of whether or not our troop presence remains at a certain level or not, I think that eventually that the sort of soft partition is eventually going to happen. I spent some time in Iraq, or been there several times in the last few years, and it seems to me that it’s only a matter of time that the Kurds do get their own independent country. They already really have it in all but name: you can’t go to Kurdistan and actually feel like you’re in Iraq. So I think that eventually that will be solidified. As for the rest of the country, it’s really too soon to tell.

WTOP: Parag, what should we as Americans demand of our politicians in light of this scenario?

Parag Khanna: We have to demand a lot less, kind of, saber rattling and the belief that we need to be the global policeman. We really can’t do all things and spend the kind of money it takes to be arbitrating every conflict in the world, which we in any case don’t really do, and we certainly don’t do it well. So diplomacy really has to be a new cornerstone of policy. And diplomacy isn’t just talking more: diplomacy is really about putting out proposals for burden-sharing in places like Afghanistan, in the Middle East, and elsewhere so that conflicts, and especially you know Iran is another example, where we can’t pretend to be the ones solving the problem. And I think that, you know, I’m very critical of American powerhouse use in the world, but the one thing I would say is that, or concede to all those people who say we’re the global cops, is that it’s time to make other people wake up and realize, “Hey!” If we were to say, “Okay we’re not going to do anything here, what would you do?” And I think that that’s really important to get these rising powers - the European Union and China - to step up not only to be competing for influence, but also to make, to have a positive impact on the world.

WTOP: Things are very much up in the air economically at the moment and maybe two or three months down the road things won’t look so bleak, but do you see everyday life here in the US becoming a lot harder in say the next ten or twenty years?

Parag Khanna: It’s interesting that you’re taking that time horizon because that is what I look at in the book. It really comes down to one thing as far as I’m concerned, and that is investing in our infrastructure. It’s not something that is permanent. You know, a lot of our infrastructure here in this country – and you hear about it everyday: it’s the stuff that Paul Krugman writes about in his New York Times columns and it’s what Lou Dobbs talks about. But they’re talking about facts: they’re talking about collapsing bridges, and cracking roads, and poor schools and hospitals. Our infrastructure clearly needs an overhaul. In second world countries that I write about are, some of them in East Asia are buying the latest and best first-world technology and are becoming more efficient. Our internet broadband penetration in the United States is very, very low. If we invest in that infrastructure, that 21^st century infrastructure that we need, from coast to coast – not just in Silicon Valley and other pockets – then that’s going to create a lot of jobs and prepare us to be competitive in the 21^st century.

Audio of interview attached below.