Mailbag: University of Phoenix
"Few other posts have attracted the kind of reader feedback that our University of Phoenix item has."
-Higher Ed Watch Staff
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Readers comment on items weeks or even months after a post first appears, and we fear that some may miss valuable and interesting feedback. So from time to time, we at Higher Ed Watch are going to highlight moving, thoughtful, and sometimes incendiary comments that we have received on past posts.
Today we are focusing on the University of Phoenix and comments received regarding a post we ran in February that focused on the school's academic quality and allegations of deceptive recruiting practices. The item, "Fed Up at the University of Phoenix," questioned whether it is in the public's best interest to continue to provide huge subsidies, in the forms of federal grants and loans, to for-profit colleges run by publicly-traded, for-profit higher education companies that appear to be more interested in rewarding investors on Wall Street than educating students.
Few other posts have attracted the kind of reader feedback that our University of Phoenix item has. In fact, we are continuing to receive comments on the post, presumably from readers who find the article on search engines like Google and Yahoo.
Many of the comments we have received come from students who were unhappy with the University of Phoenix. Here's one such comment that we received in March from a student who said that irrespective of secondary school or student preparation, the university places an emphasis on recruiting students or as another student who wrote in put it, getting "asses in the classes":
In July, a graduate of the University of Phoenix named Kathy wrote us, questioning the value of her degree:"The school is killing the value of a college degree by giving it out to people who have no place being in college. If college is really for "everyone" then what makes it different than high-school?"
"I graduated from UOP three years ago. I have to say that I have yet to receive even a "call back" from any potential employer who has received my resume. I make the same amount of money I did when I started school, and now have to go back again and get another bachelor's degree from a state university... Don't end up like me... $40,000 in debt and getting deeper with a $15/hr job!"
Others felt that they had gotten ripped off by the school. This week, a student named Melanie, who is in the University of Phoenix online program, wrote in to say she felt "bamboozled" by the school:
"THEY STALK YOU TO GET YOU IN CLASS, LIE ABOUT THE FINANCIAL AID, AND THEN DROP YOU LIKE A HOT-POTATO ONCE YOU ARE IN THE HEAD-COUNT. THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU ANYMORE."
Of the 34 comments we have received on the post, about a dozen came from readers defending the university. Some came from students who had only good things to say about the education they have received. For example, in August, a student named Jodell wrote the following:
"I am currently completing my 3rd year and final course as a doctoral learner in the University of Phoenix School of Advanced Studies in Educational Leadership. I have received an excellent value of education for my dollar and can stand side by side with any doctoral student in Educational Leadership from a "brick and mortar" traditional university."
Several other students were quite critical of those commenters who had offered negative feedback about the university. In May, a reader wrote the following:
"Let's get real! I have read several pieces of writing regarding a negativity towards this University. The writing has been 'Cry me a River' or 'I am a victim.' I find it completely ironic how many self proclaimed victims there are out there. And by the way, I am a student at UOP. I am pleased with my education..."
Some commenters argued that the concerns we wrote about apply to nonprofit colleges as well. In February, a reader with the initials MR wrote in February:
"Don't fool yourself or attempt to influence your readers into believing that not-for-profit education in the United States is about anything other than money (profit)...I ask you to look no further than the inflated salaries paid to NCAA coaches. What exactly funds these salaries -- ticket sales for sporting events, corporate sponsorship, "marketing" ? This is exactly the type of activity that UOP and/or any company would engage in to promote a product/service and pursue growth of market share."
But other readers felt that for-profit colleges deserve greater scrutiny than traditional colleges. A reader named Suzanne B, who previously worked at a trade school, wrote in June:
"The UoP is not operating in a vacuum. There are many other for-profit schools out there that take your money and do not deliver on their "education" promises. I worked for a for-profit school that routinely signed up students using government Title IV Funds and the admissions reps knew what they were selling was an undeliverable product. Students were screwed; they had huge student loans that came due, no diploma to show for it and, here's the best part, their credit history was ruined (probably for life). But the school posted record profits. The for-profit system should be abolished. It's not about the student or education; it's about making money for the board of directors and the shareholders."
We appreciate all the comments we have received on the University of Phoenix matter and other items. Please keep them coming. Sometimes, we respond publicly. Sometimes not. Regardless, others do. We publish nearly every comment, including those critical of us, without editorial change beyond legal considerations and aim to make sure the most trenchant comments are read widely. We'll continue to do so in the future.
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As an Employer, I won't Hire UoP "graduates"
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but we as employers simply throw away resumes from those who "attended" the Phoenix OnLine University.
We simply do not consider it legitimate education.
Free-Market Intrusion Not Welcome In Temple of Higher Ed
Thanks NAF for once again showing us your cards! You don't like anyone who dares to make a profit off of higher education. Here's an inconvenient truth for you though....if people didn't think the education they received from for-profit institutions was up to par, the for-profits wouldn't be in business anymore! Since the University of Phoenix is still in business, and has been for quite some time, it must be successfully educating quite a few of its students.
After you've helped to quash the money-changer's business prospects I guess we know who'll be next on the list! Fabian Socialism at its finest!
Hey Frank Furter
Maybe you should be a little less overt about your penchant for discrimination when it comes to employing University of Phoenix graduates. Where there is smoke there is fire-I wonder how many other folks get denied employment at your firm for other arbitrary reasons as well? Ever hear of the Equal Opportunity Employment Act? What limited vision and hubris such a statement implies. Reminds me of a great quote that is clearly lost on you: "in the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king". Ponder it before you deny employment b/c of the college an applicant attended.
UOP
for-profit education
I just want to point out that it generally takes four years in order to run up $40,000 in student loans. If students feel they are being ripped off by a for-profit school, they can vote with their feet and go elsewhere.
So when I hear a former student complain "Waa, I have $40,000 in debt and didn't learn anything" I wonder why they stayed for four years at the same school?
UOP SUX!
pros and cons of UOP
I worked at a recruiting firm and we pretty much threw away UOP resumes, or removed the reference if they went to a real school first. You can put UOP on your resume if you'd like because we never verified education for that place. It is pretty much worthless. Other online courses offered by real schools require you to come into a testing center and verify your identity for EVERY TEST, I have heard that UOP's online courses don't require you to do that.
PS Patrick Bott you CAN discriminate due to certain factors; intelligence and age are some factors; having a college degree is another factor you can descriminate on. UOP is not a 'real' degree.
However I will say that my cousin works in education and she spent 10k to get an online masters degree from UOP and then got a 10k raise the next school year. So it did pay off for someone and may be "worth" your money. But for that price you can afford cheap-state school (in my state).
Here's a suggestion for everyone, save your money and don't go to UOP.
'real' degree??
Just to clarify, the University of Phoenix is an accredited institution. Any degree received, is in fact "real"; contrary to what others may believe.
Additionally, many of the comments above seem to imply that the University's courses are only offered online. This is not true. While some student do attend online courses, many student go to a classroom, with other students and listen to lecture and have disucussion...just like other colleges.
It sounds as though some employers may have preferences with regard to where an applicants education comes from and this is unfortunate. Perhaps with more education, these employers would be better equipped to make such premature decisions about their applicants.
Why doesnt anyone mention
UOP education
UOP is definately not a freebie for a quick degree. As a student for over two years; I have
found it challenging, educational and frustrating. It takes dedication and work. As a working
professional, this was a path to fulfill my major that I had begun years back in community
college. I have sacrificed much over the years attending, as have my team members. Do not
use unfavorable criticism as an excuse to not try. If this is an option for you, give it a chance.
Then, make your own decision about the process.
UOP
My wife has been working for years to get two degrees from the UoP (not online, by actually attending classes, taking tests, writing papers, typical real college stuff). She's gone to school week after week and studied night after night and worked pretty hard to be a couple of months away form graduation. She wouldn't have been been able to do this through traditional education institutions.
I suspect that much of the "anti-UoP" sentiment comes from the "online degree" problem. She was very dissatisfied with the first couple of online classes she took, so she switched to the real-in-class program and has been happy since.
I've hired college grads who had 3.5 to 4.0 degrees from traditional 4 year universities that were worthless, so I don't suspect worthlessness comes from the school or type of school chosen. I suspect that those who apply themselves make something of themselves, and others well . uh .. don't.
UOP discussion
I have read all of the discussions on this forum up to date. I must first say that I just completed my BS/BA degree from the University of Phoenix in March of this year, 2008. I started in September of 2002. There are things I did not like about the college, but there are many more that I did like.
For those that indicated they threw away the resumes of those that had the University of Phoenix listed, my question would be why? Did you actually attend a class and experience a poor educational experience? Or did you just here something somewhere, or from someone and based your decisions off of that?
I listen to some of the professional atheletes that have gone to some of the "major" univeristies, like Texas, Oklahoma, and North Carolina, and they sound like idiots. Their speech is slurred and often times incomplete. However if there were two identical candidates and they were were screened just based on their school, then the hiring manager would get exactly what they deserved and in this case they would get someone with a "major" college education, that would be very poor at communicating.
That said, I do not pretend to believe that everyone that attends or attended the University of Phoenix is a top notch student. At the end of the day, regardless of the institution, you get out of it, what you put in to it, and I know there are a lot of high quality people coming out of the UOP system, that have a lot of experience and drive and would make outstanding employees.
To those that screen solely based off of a college choice, and claim that you CAN legally, just becuase you can, doesn't mean you should. It may be legal, but it is still discrimination no matter how you slice it or try to defend it.
My five years have been challenging and rewarding. I have had to work hard and when I slacked off my grade reflected it.
There is no perfect choice for students or employers, in my opinion we have to make the best of the opportunties with what we have and that will not always be the best for everyone.
I agree with Mr Herndon
I attended a traditional university (UNR) and obtanined by BA in business. I decided to attended UOP because it was the only choice I had. I work full-time and didn't have the time to struggling with class scheduling conflicts or financial aid issues, like I had with UNR, the fear of having a class dropped in the last minute, the high price of books, and the high price of books.
In addition, I did not go the online route, I attend classes regulargy, take exams, write papers and do all the same things that I did at UNR. I have found this to be a lot harder! Everyone told me, UOP is so easy, its a breeze, etc...HAHA! Hell not it is not! I put a lot of time a effort into my work and shame on those employers who just "throw out" our resumes. That is complete discrimination and bullsh*t. I've dedicated just as much time into my studies than any other grad student.
Casey- I have recently
Casey-
I have recently graduated from UOP, and it took me 4 years to obtain my BS/BM. I am going back to hopefully obtain an MBA. However, after reading your submission, I have to think that your grammar, spelling, etc. really suck! You are not a very good example of a college student, or a grad student for that matter. I have taken online courses since June of '04, and I have to say that it has been one of the most challenging quests I have ever been through, especially since I live in rural Montana, and have a family to support, so the old brick and mortar college was not possible.
For All Others-
Anyone can go to any type of school, and they will get out what they put in......I have seen some extreme dumba**es come out of both the traditional, and the online colleges. I have many friends that graduated from the University of Minnesota, Montana, UCLA, and others.....and some of them are extremely intelligent, and some are as dumb as a cardboard box. Bottom line, you get out of class what you put into it.....for those cry-babies who dropped out, it goes to show you that once a quitter, always a quitter.
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