New New America higher ed guy Stephen Burd takes an unfortunately predictable and under-nuanced swipe at the University of Phoenix and for profit higher ed companies in general in his post Fed Up at the University of Phoenix . In the piece, Burd rehashes the discredited NYT story from earlier this month, describes in broad terms other complaints about for profit postsecondary education outfits (Wall Street = bad), and calls for close Congressional scrutiny. Come on, Stephen, you're at New America now. Blaming Wall Street and slamming for-profits without acknowledging the massive problems facing higher ed in general (tuition costs, lending practices, lack of accountability to name a few) seems like something that'd come out of some other, less interesting think tank. For more, see http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/thisweekineducation/2007/02/did_the_nyt_get_it_wrong_on_th.html

Your article is, in my opinion misguided, inaccurate and misleading. Don't fool yourself or attempt to influence your readers into believing that not-for-profit education in the United States is about anything other than money (profit). The President of Stanford, in the midst of such discussions, had the audacity to grace the front page of Saturdays WSJ in an article designed to demonstrate his compensation and earnings. Many of these activities were private ventures - but certainly related to his role at Stanford. The not-for-profit - profit institution (wink and a nod). In similar fashion I ask you to look no further than the inflated salaries paid to NCAA coaches. What exactly funds these salaries -- ticket sales for sporting events, corporate sponsorship, "marketing" ? This is exactly the type of activity that UOP and/or any company would engage in to promote a product/service and pursue growth of market share. Let's build a huge facility to host football, or if we are lucky host a training camp? In your article you state "Otherwise, countless numbers of students will continue to leave these institutions each year buried in debt but without the skills they need to pursue careers in the fields in which they sought training. That would be a tragedy." Indeed it would be a tragegy. The same such tragedy that impacts students in ALL forms of higher education regardless of admission requirements, or institution. Is a NFP university serving its tax exempt status to community benefit by only admitting those individuals that are most likely to succeeed, resulting in higher graduation rates, more endowment's and greater recognition ? Or is it a better mix to give those inclined to pursue higher education an opportunity to do so ??? Even if that means the attrition rate may exceed national averages ?? There have been countless news bits regarding fraud in SAT, GMAT, LSAT, MSAT etc. People pay other people to take the examination on their behalf. But at least we have admission requirements. Smoke and mirros. Its completely ridiculous, and most involved acknowledge confusion regarding the value of standardized testing ! And then, to suggest that the government get involved ! I suppose while congress works to correct higher ed. they could work on healthcare ? They could begin with the for profit healthcare organizations - because its more important to provide quality patient care, then it is to satisfy wall street ? Which represents a larger share of US GDP ? Healthcare, hands down. You would have been better served to make appropriate and valid agruments refuting the erroneous and misguided claims of Sam Dillon of the NYT in the article earlier this month. Instead you elect to reignite a discussion that based on the fabricated claims of the uninformed. We expect better from you.

Stephen Burd's article on University of Phoenix and other for-profits is right on. Yes, many past abuses have been addressed over the years, but very serious problems persist (as Burd and the NYT point out). The National Consumer Law Center documented some of these problems in our 2005 report on job placement and completion rates. (see http://www.nclc.org/action_agenda/student_loans/content/ProprietarySchoolsReport.pdf). Interestingly, many of the responses to our report were quite similar to the comment submitted by Alexander Russo. In essence, the commentators agreed that the for-profits often manipulate job placement and completion rates and that these rates are often quite low, but, the commentators said, these problems are not confined to the for-profit sector. As in that case, the "others do it too" response is not very productive. There are numerous reasons to single out and focus on for-profits, including: 1) The history of very serious abuses in this sector; 2) The recent problems and changes, including unprecedented pressure to grow, in this sector; 3) The heightened data reporting and other legal requirements that apply in this sector; 4) Aggressive marketing by for-profits; 5) The additional legal requirements and obligations that are connected to the explicit job training focus of many of these schools; and 6) the enormous stakes for students b/c of the expense of attending these schools. If only problems with proprietary schools were just relics of the past! In fact, numerous proprietary school companies have been the subject of private lawsuits and government investigations in recent years. These cases often involve misrepresentations and inflated claims that borrowers/students will graduate and find jobs.

After reading all the articles I'd have to say we are at a serious turning point as to what consititutes a solid education.  I completed the MBA program at the University of Phoenix, but with no intention of it being my primary graduate degree (I also have a MSEE from Virginia Tech and working on a MS in Information Assurance) nor would I have paid for a dime of it myself (gov't tuition assistance picked up the bill).  It was only an attempt to learn more which I have to say I did.  With that said the amount that you learn is completely up to you...  as the article indicates the validation of what you learn is somewhat lacking in terms of formal tests, etc.  Instead classes rely on formal papers to assess course progress. It's unfortunate that the school is unwilling to go through the business accredidation process, but online education is here to stay.  Lets just hope University of Phoenix changes a few things to fix the problem.

It is unfortunate that the New York Times, a paper I personally respect, has published a piece so completely riddled with inaccuracies.  Make no mistake, University of Phoenix is unashamedly for-profit.  It is also unashamedly FOR serving adult students, sinlge parents, first-generation college attendees, underrepresented minority students, and many others who have been left behind by traditional colleges and universities that are focused primarily on serving the elite.   University of Phoenix is one of the most examined institutions in history, due to it's multi-state locations and multiple accreditations and it has always passed its unprescidented number of peer reviews.  That's because its quality is measured not by high and exclusionary admission standards which guarantee a level of output, but rather from measuring the learning outcomes of its students.  For anyone caring to check, it has one of the most comprehensive learning assessment programs of any college in the nation.  And contrary to the NYT article, it's completion rates are equal to the completion rates of  public institutions of higher learning in the U.S, which today hoover between 50-60%.   Denigrating any sector of industry because of it's legal status (for-profit or not-for-profit) is senseless. And sweeping all institutions together into one (for-profit) heap is misleading.  For-profit schools are as varied in their missions as their non-profit counterparts - there are vocational schools, jr. colleges, career colleges and universities, and this nation needs all of them.

It seems many folks want to stigmatize anything for profit, and others believe it's us versus them, the regular american folks versus the elitists like the New York Times. Of course the Times is elitist, but that doesn't mean everything it says is wrong.  Of course for profits can work. In fact, it seems like I see business's every day who stay profitable and make their customers happy. The same holds true for the University of Phoenix (UOP); they will make or break themselves.

That said, they appear to be on the slippery slope down. Put in context of past and present legal problems, and a 2004 U.S. Department of Education report, the New York Times appears to have gotten a good deal correct. Below is a summation of that report, which I encourage all to google. It's interesting. The Education Department report sets the scene of a business that used deception as a regular practice, probably out of a desire ot make money. Please read the excerpt below for yourselves.

"The DOE review was conducted in the summer of 2003 to determine UOP's compliance with the Higher Education Act...One of the requirements makes it against the law for educational institutions like the UOP to pay enrollment counselors compensation based solely on obtaining enrollments.In summarizing the UOP’s compensation system the report states, “The actions of UOP and the system it has established cultivates and maintains a corporate culture of defiance of UOP’s fiduciary duty. UOP has created an environment that pits the strong motivation of individual gain against its fiduciary duty to the Department. It is one that flaunts the Departments regulations and the prohibition against incentive compensation based on enrollments.” 

The DOE begins its report asserting that when the UOP is hiring recruiters, they promise substantial income opportunities, and could "double or triple thier salary in three to six months."

 

The report explains new trainees quickly learn income potential is specifically tied to number of enrollments achieved. Recruiters learn a system called matrix, which supposedly supplies numerous factors in determining a recruiters compensation. However,  "The matrix sets forth the rating ("meets," etc.) associated with the number of enrollments, and it is these criteria that supercede all others and actually determine salary." Indeed one recruiter recalls the Director of Enrollment saying "we're flying under the radar of the Department," believes that the "matrix is a way to deceive the Department." (Department refers to DOE)

 

The DOE describes daily morning meetings where managers "...serve to motivate or humiliate the recruiters based on their activities."  Managers use large boards to post statistics for each employee, "Except when "visitors" are expected, UOP managers prominently post the board..."  "UOP used these frequent meetings to drive home the message that a recruiters success in securing enrollments would equate to success.." in reaching salary goals.  "One enrollment manager puts a spreadsheet on her recruiters' computer desktops that shows how many enrollments each recruiter needs to reach the next salary level."

 

The report describes intimidation tactics used by managers.   One admissions director tells students who are not meeting required enrollment they are, ""stealing from Brian Mueller" (CEO of UOP on line.)"

 

The "red room" was a place reserved for punishment for those not meeting required sales figures.  The room was a glassed in enclosure so those outside could look in.  Tables were placed in the middle where recruits were made to sit and make calls, while fellow co-workers looked on.  Those sent to this room had to report immeadiatly and would be closely monitered by management.  THis practice was eliminated in 2002.

 

SOme recruiters point out management would become intimidating when enrollment numbers were down, saying their "heads would be on a chopping block" if numbers weren't reached.  One recruiter recalls explaining she may need to fly home to attend here grandmas funeral and was told by her manager, "YOu can't afford the time away..." and ..."if you go, you have to prove that you went to the funeral and that she is dead."

 

As to recruiter evaluations, the report describes, "More than 70% of the recruiters reported that they were unaware  of any basis for compensation other than enrollment numbers and recruiting activities.  It is remarkable that the only recruiters who said that their salary also included qualitative factors, such as customer service, were recruiters chosen by UOP to be interviewed by the reviewers. Literally every recruiter interviewed randomly or outside of the work premises said that the number of enrollments determined their salary."  One manager when asked by a recruiter about compensation stated “its enrollments.  You know its enrollments.  It will always be enrollments.”

“From its monthly commissionable sales reports, to its admissions counselor policy guide, to its repeated reminders from managers, UOP reinforces to recruiters that UOP evaluates and pays them solely on the basis of how many students they enroll” the report concludes.

The report asserts, “The sales philosophy at UOP and practice is designed around evasion and relies upon euphemisms to avoid detection by the Department.  UOP systematically established terminology and procedures to hide the fact that UOP pays distinct and significant financial incentives solely based on recruiters’ success in securing enrollments.”  To avoid detection, the UOP uses euphemisms to describe enrollments, such as “activities or “level one student information cards.”

  The report goes on to describe how recruiters with the highest enrollments get massive pay raises.   It describes managements pressure to recruit unqualified students.  That recruiters are coached when officials from government or accrediting agencies were visiting.  And in response to DOE questions, “Literally every current UOP employee who has worked longer than a year, expressed anxiety over possible retaliation by the UOP.” The report goes on to describe a cover up during the DOE review, “UOP’s behavior during the program review process further substantiates the ethical concerns expressed by both current and former employees.”  When one manager knew of the review, she coached two employees what to say, that salaries were based on numerous factors, not just enrollments. She further instructed they were not to speak to former UOP employees about what goes on at the UOP. Recruiters were told if they were contacted by DOE personell, they were first to report this to management before participating in an interview.  Recruiters uniformly said they felt intimidated by this practice. After managers were told the DOE review would be conducted as schools in Northern California and Phoenix, UOP management told some recruiters at the California locations they should take leave.  When interviewed, these recruiters indicated they were absent as they had reputations for being honest and frank. 

 

I have to say we should ban together for the greater concerns out there. There is always going to be those that do not agree, have a bad experience, do not take accountability, etc. It is in my opinion, that if there truly was a huge dilema with the University of Phoenix, then the school would no longer exist. Let's get real! I have read several pieces of writing regarding a negativity towards this University.  The writing has been "Cry me a River" or "I am a victim." I find it completely ironic how many self proclaimed victims there are out there. And by the way, I am a student at UOP. 

I am pleased with my education. I am apart of the Distance Education program Online. Let's face it, online education is not for everyone. For those that have success with it, why should they be mocked? We are evolving into a lot of variations of Distance IT capabilities. How many people can say I am getting a University level education without letting Strangers raise my children, while I work and go to school? If you all want something to gripe about, how about one sided newspaper writing, that continues to fuel a negative outlook on anything. When was the last time our news was not bombarted with people and their contraverisal opinions? Whether a for profit organization has more or less rights, then a non profit organization is irrelavent. Non profit organizations get a different level of qulification in the federal government, based on their status. We can show animosity by saying they are hiding behind their not for profit status. Again I say get real! Any business must have a income to keep the business operations running. I would like to see any proof of accusations of misused funds.

On the side of the for profit facilities. They pay their taxes, bills, cost of operation, etc. Unless there is concrete proof that funds are being misused, lets move on to the next thing to pick at, shall we?

As for the discrentialed students. Be fully aware of your options, and how to gracefully exit a school. It is not the schools fault, that you did not either read the fine print on your loan or contact your loan company for cancellation. Sallie Mae is shaking her finger at you for finger pointing to cover up your own short comings. There are those that will suceed in higher education and those that need to accept their place. If something does not work out, take it for the learning event it was, and move on. 

 I have found most people need to fine tune their listening skills. I am not a aggreassive debator, nor do I seek out situations such as this one. I am defending my opportunity to get a University education, a better career, and a more secure future. If that is unacceptable, then walk away. 

For those that have walked away from UOP, due to bad publicity, I pity you for being a herd of sheep. If you did your research you may find some evident supportive information regarding this school. As far as the federal government is concerned. Do you really think they would provide services to a Pseudo-establishment? How about using some of those CRT Skills and writing skills to do something good. I already have enough toilet paper, thank you!

Let me tell you a thing or two about the real University of Phoenix Corporation. Yes I called it a corporation due to the fact that I withdrew from my studies due to changing majors and several other reasons. That lead me to canceling my future disbursements to the school as of April 13, 2007. As of yesterday May 07,2007, I was informed that even though I canceled my disbursements through Sallie Mae that my soon to be former financial aid adviser notified me AFTER I filed my permanent withdrawal forms to the school that my student loans and my Pell Grant were being processed by the school as we spoke. I sent the confirmation letter to my adviser, Charlene via fax in which she received due to I was on the phone with her stating that I had canceled any future disbursements. So I called Sallie Mae this morning and found out that they SENT the University of Phoenix my disbursements AFTER I canceled a month ago. Now I cannot transfer because I cannot afford it. The school is holding my transcripts hostage, and they are screwing me around as to getting my permanent withdrawal finalized from the school. That is the truth when it comes to the University of Phoenix. For those who have their heads in the corporation cloud take a good look at this because it could happen to you.

 

A very aggravated former student.

Why exactly is it that students are experiencing everything that is being said? Just because you have stock in the company does not mean what they are doing is ethical or even legal. After all isn't a company only as good as the consumers feel when dealing with them?

Say 70% of the people that go to Mc Donalds and order a big mac, get an original cheese burger instead. When they complain, they are told that no they won't get a refund or even the difference in price back, and they may as well eat it anyway and then move on. Would they still be in business? I'm sure they would come up with every loop hole they could find to make that okay... but would it be? NO! If the consumer is not happy with what is provided then University Of Phoenix didn't fulfill it's commitment to the consumer and absolutely SHOULD NOT make the consumer pay for UOP's inadequacies.

 

 

The UoP is not operating in a vacuum. There are many other for-profit schools out there that take your money and do not deliver on their "education" promises. I worked for a for-profit school that routinely signed up students using government Title IV Funds and the admissions reps knew what they were selling was an undeliverable product. Students were screwed; they had huge student loans that came due, no diploma to show for it and, here's the best part, their credit history was ruined (probably for life). But the school posted record profits. The for-profit system should be abolished. It's not about the student or education; it's about making money for the board of directors and the shareholders.

Considering Univ. of Phoenix has graduated literally thousands of  individuals this year and proceeding years indicates to me the tremendous success factor that UOP has achieved.  What I don't understand is the constant ridicule by individuals who clearly refuse to see the truth in favor of their own strange and questionable point of views against a great university.  I will be one of those thousands of graduates this year just completing my MBA in Health Care Management, which I worked hard to achieve.  Also, considering that most colleges and universities in America in particular, including ivy leage, have adopted Univ. of Phoenix's academic model for their adult students, proves to me that Univ. of Phoenix has made a great contribution to modern day academics in terms of setting academic standards for working adults.  Now that Univ. of Phoenix business programs have received the additional ACBSP accreditation, should put to rest much of the ridicule that has been used to unfairly single out UOP. 

 Univ. of Phoenix is a great school that is well suited to meet the demands of the 21st century.

Okay, I graduated from UOP three years ago. I have to say that I have yet to receive even a "call back" from any potential employer who has received my resume. I make the same amount of money I did when I started school, and now have to go back again and get another bachelor's degree from a state university. However, I believe the people who actually benefit from UOP are the 40 plus year olds who need "any degree" to move up in a company they have worked with for twenty plus years. Oh yeah! To top it off most schools do not recognize UOP credits... Don't go there, go to a regular college/university. If you can't get into a regular college go to beauty school. Don't end up like me... $40,000 in debt and getting deeper with a $15/hr job!

I am currently completing my 3rd year and final course as a doctoral learner in the University of Phoenix School of Advanced Studies in Educational Leadership. I have received an excellent value of education for my dollar and can stand side by side with any doctoral student in Educational Leadership from a "brick and mortar" traditional university. The University of Phoenix School of Advanced Studies program has been relevent, rigorous and researched based. In completing my proposal for my dissertation, I have had the opportunity to share my learning experiences with superintendents, curriculum directors and principals and have found that the UoP program has given me a very strong foundation in all areas of educational leadership including learning theories, educational law, assessments and validity, finance and budgeting, educational reform, duties and responsibilities of educational leaders, and ongoing research methods to improve practice. During  my three years as a doctoral student, I have had the opportunity to work with exceptional professional educators across the country both as cohort members and instructors. Perhaps it is what one makes of the opportunity for learning, but the University of Phoenix has provided me with a very viable program experience and a means to complete my doctoral studies as I continued in my current professional teaching assignment.

As a current student -at the UOP campus- I have experienced the attitude, from other colleagues, against the university as expressed within these messages. My main concern is not whether the school is non-profit, but whether it offers the programs necessary to meet the job role I am pursuing. I have told fellow colleagues that the only reason I attend this school is because it will help me advance in the career I am formining part of. Yet they disagree. They tell me that they are not satisfied because they have not received any calls -from employers- regarding their resumees submited to such employers. They tell me:"I think employers laugh when they see the UOP name on the resume. Newsflash: "No employer is dumb enough to accept you to top managerial positions merely because you are a student at an accredited university, yet -like other university students- you must start from the 'basics.' The title will merely help you advance in your field of preference as you apply the skills you, yourself, have developed to your job." But what is SAD is that such colleagues do not possess the critical thinking to understand this 'rhetorical' situation. They think that managers are naive to accept any 'duf' with a university title. My words; "How do you think they got to that possition, being a 'duf?'.......... As for me  I am at peace while my employer pays for my part of my education (He expects not only for me to maintain a G.P.A of 3.0, but also expects to have an employee who will meet the requirements to execute a new job role). "What do colleagues know; huh? Ha, ha, ha."

I graduated from the University of Phoenix in 2003 with an MBA/Acc.  Just before graduating, I received a job offer a little less than what I was making at that time and because I was looking to change field, I -disappointedly- accepted it.  I worked for that company for two years and kept applying for jobs.  Relocation wasn't an option for me and so many offers I received to relocate I politely turned down.  And between late 2005 to early 2006 when the economy picked up, I changed jobs 3 times (recruited for jobs with offers ~15000 more than the current earning).  Now, I am making more than twice what I made when I initially graduated from the University of Phoenix (4 years ago).   

 I read the stat's about Phoenix and I understand how some people feels about.  The idea of getting a quick offer and promotion is not always quick enough.    I worked hard with my team, much harder than I did in my "Brick and Mortar"  undergraduate school and received and deserved a better GPA from Phoenix as well. It took me two years after my undergraduate degree to receive a job offer within my field - and my undergraduate university is ranked within the top 20 according to US News and World Reports. It is certain that one can get by doing the basic requirements, just like in any other school, but if the education is to improve oneself, then having the knowledge taught at Phoenix will give you the confidence you need to walk into a [leadership] job and do the job well.  Because I went through the program, I can honestly say that this is indeed a quality program and whatever you put into it, you will get out.  Just don't expect to get a whole lot out of it if you don't put a whole lot into it.

I have been a student at the Axia College of University of Phoenix for a week.  When I tried to enroll for a general studies degree, they told me financial aid wouldn't cover it and I had to sign up for a degree in business. Reluctantly, I did so and now after looking at the school I would be transferring to, many of the courses that I would be taking would do me NO GOOD for the degree program of Chemistry. After learning this I decided to withdraw from class.  I have been trying to withdraw from school this entire week and am currently on the phone with the university listening to an Enrollment Manager tell me how I will face certain doom for going to a traditional college because I work full time and have a child. Despite all of the bad press that I heard about UOP from relatives who went there and in the media, I tried to give them a chance. Now I owe them $475 and they are trying to intimidate me to stay by saying,"If you don't pay us in 3 weeks we will place this on your credit and it will impact you for the next 7 years of your life."  I wouldn't have signed up for the program if I had known I would be my own adviser.  I wish I had paid attention to all the bad press and RAN from UOP.  Had I been contacted by my adviser on my start day of class I never would have attended class for the first two days and wouldn't have had to pay them anything.

To all above:

I have not read all the posts but do understand that there are individuals who are for or against the University of Phoenix or online education.  If you do your research before applying to any college on line or not you, should do fine.  All universities have their positives and negatives.  I am enrolled in a program I feel is the best for me.  However, I have run into many administrative issues not related to my classes. 

Univ of Phoenix has a reputation of being a get-a-degree quick program online.  However, most businesses of will not consider an individual with a Phd or EdD from UOP over a college with a known track record.  The fact that Intel dropping its college reinbursement practices for UOP is a confirmation of this.

One may point out that the top ordered dissertations two years in a row were from UOP (www.proquest.com).  However, this is based on the main topics most people are pursuing for their own dissertations (job satisfaction or leadership styles).  Chapter five from these two dissertations will provide guidance for research for people who are trying to find a topic.

Therefore, fully research the schools you may want to attend for your degree and ask the following question: Do you want to get your degree fast and maybe a pay raise or do you want to get a degree from a school that has a proven track record in your field of interest and may help you further your career?

(recruiting practices aside-strictly education)

It's not Harvard, and people ought to stop treating it as if it should be. It is an experiment in online education. I'm sure the methods and information used will evolve.  And for some of us, it is the only way to get that degree we managed not to get when younger.

I've attended traditional brick and mortar colleges, and I still don't see a difference between what they offered and what is being offered at UoP--some classes are good, and some just suck. Just like most colleges, if you want to put in minimal effort and skate by on a 2.5 or 3, you can. Most people who criticize are reluctant to admit that their universities had some of the same "showing up is half the grade" mentality. How many of us went to school with folks who knew less than they went in with, but left with a degree? By the way, I would be willing to bet that those “skaters” don’t get through the program when it is online. They quit and blame everything and everyone else.

If you do the readings, make an effort, you learn. And you will not skate by. It will be an effort. It will be getting up early and going to bed late. But the information you learn is yours to keep and use.

I can't tell you how often I've heard from employers and HR folks that all a degree really means, for the most part, is a dedication, a willingness to finish. Those of you who believe that is true and have never tried online learning have no IDEA how brutal it is. It isn't just four hours a week, it is hours and hours of self-dedicate, self-governing, self-directed, self-motivated scheduling. There is nowhere to be at a certain time, you can always put the studying off, and do it later, and mess up in the process.

I'm sure they have problems, some serious. In fact, who doesn't? Can they do better? Of course.

I wondered if the Intel decision had more to do with the number of people who dropped, rather than completed the course work so I read the referenced article above. It looks like Intel wanted Harvard. 

The main issue that I want to express is that University of Phoenix is a "open enrollment" university, meaning they let anyone in without any academic standards whatsoever. There is no admissions tests, such as the GRE, or GMAT for the MBA program. There are no standards because they want to enroll as many people as possible so they can get financial aid money from the goverment. It's all just a giant scam disguised as "higher education".

You all have me really nervous now. One day, while looking for a particular site, I fell upon a site called UOP sucks; well, of course I started reading it. Not good. My antennaes went up. Since then, my financial aid reimbursement has not arrived and my acceptance letter that I requested, in order to apply for scholarships, has not arrived either. I called to find out about acceptance letter, and they tried to put it off on someone else; as if I didn't talk to the right person the first time. In all actuality, I had requested it twice, before today. As far as my financial aid reimbursement check, well, last week, I was told it was sent on the 25th, today I was told it was reissued due to it taking so long to not get to me. Well, how did they know yesterday that I had not received it yet? And why would they reissue one without talking to me first. Supposedly, the check is in the mail. I was told it was sent out yesterday. There are several complaints about them with the BBB. As far as my education is concerned, well, I have a 4.00 GPA right now, but now I am very worried that it was included with my payment. I do work hard at my studies, but by listening to everyone, I'm not sure it is a stellar education. Can someone please comfort me?

You know what, you people who are FOR UoP may have not been in certain situations as the many people being scammed by the university. This post is 100% correct. You have to have been scammed by UoP to understand what the author is talking about. Maybe the university is not using you to take your money just yet, or maybe you will be lucky enough to where they won't scam you at all; but keep in mind, there are many many students being scammed by UoP, there's plenty of proof, too. Just search forums and websites, the people being scammed are everywhere, and I'm sure they can relate their bad experiences with this post. 

I am currently withdrawling from the University of Phoenix for many reasons. Let me begin by saying that the quality of education is horrible. As stated previously the University of Phoenix on campus classes are pretty much a joke. The classes are small (that's ok), but the professors in which they hire are unprofessional, dishonest, and under educated. For instance, I previously completed a course for English. The course itself consisted of writing papers and giving presentations - that's it. The instructors do not lecture, and most of the time the classes involve a subject of another sort. In several instances we spent 50% of the time talking about things that did not pertain to the subject we were there to discuss.

Since the beginning of my withdrawal process I have received "threatening" emails. For those of you who are interested in joining the University of Phoenix hear me out. I was told that if I chose to go elsewhere for education, and withdraw from the University of Phoenix I would have to pay for my last 2 classes that I attended even though I was getting full financial aid, and was never told at any time that I would owe any money for those classes. In fact my account as we speak has over 300.00 CREDIT. So my assumption is this - Am I being charged the last two classes because I am choosing to withdraw from the school? The government has already paid for those classes, so why should I have to pay for them? I do not have a balance with them at this time, as I stated my account has a credit on it.

Here is an excerpt from the email I received from my academic counselor at the University of Phoenix.

 

Keep in mind, she is my academic counselor not my financial aid counselor. How would she know I would owe money?

 

Hello Diana,

I am sorry to hear you will be withdrawing. If you do not want to continue with the course I could find another course for you. But if you still want to withdraw from school please fill out the form I have attached. This will affect your loan with us and you will end up owing the University of Phoenix.

Thank you,

For some reason this doesn't make sense to me. I plan to report this to the government. I don't really know what else I can do. I feel as if I don't withdraw, I'll save my credit from being ruined.. or I can put myself (and my education) first and go to a cheaper school that I can not only afford, but learn from as well.

 

 

I recently graduated from UOP with a BSIT degree. Is UOP without problems? Absolutely not! That being said, I think that some of the problems I had could have happened at any college. I do feel that I received a quality education and worked extremely hard to maintain a 3.82 GPA. None of the courses I took were “give-a-ways”. Most of my courses were “on ground”. I did have to take several online courses and a couple of “directed study” courses in order to complete my degree. As mentioned in an earlier post, you will only get out of UOP what you put in to it. I had only one instructor that I felt (as did my classmates) was not qualified. He was fired after teaching two courses. I found that the majority of my instructors were qualified to teach each particular subject. Overall I had a good experience at UOP and would recommend it to other working adults. Since the article about UOP ran in the NY Times, there have been many valid rebuttals to the information the article conveyed. It would seem that there are flaws in the way that the Federal Government calculates graduations rates for one. As far as “for profit” schools being bad, if the school is not funded by government, either state or federal, it is a “for profit” school. I guess that would make every private college something to avoid when seeking an education.

 

I THINK THAT EVERYONE WITH A PROBLEM WITH THE FINANCES AT UOP SHOULD GET TOGETHER AND FILE A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT. PLEASE MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF YOU FILE A COMPLAINT WITH THE FEDERAL DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY THEY WILL STOP THESE IMMORAL PRACTICES.

Scam, I believe, is the wrong word to use when describing the UOP, AXIA, and the other 34.3 billion names they use.  It's all about the money, and as long as you keep dishing it out, they keep feeding you degree promises.  Eventually, you get the degree, too.  Yes, it might be at the cost of a half a million dollar student loan, but you CAN get the degree.  Yes, the degree might be worthless, and laughed at when you apply for a job with credited big name companies (and 99.8% of all the other companies), but at least .2% of the companies in the world will hire a person with this degree.  So technically, it isn't a scam.

 Here are the problems I had with them, though.

 The enrollment counselor?  Wonderful person!  Very helpful.  Knowledgeable.  Everything a person could want in an enrollment counselor, she was.  After that, however, it went downhill.  I had FIVE different academic advisors during my three blocks of classes, and three different financial advisors.  Replies from the professors on assignments were copy and paste replies, which meant you really don't even know how you did.  I know this, because I got the same reply on two different assignments more than once.  Word for word.  When I asked questions about assignments, I either didn't ever get a reply, or the reply would come after the assignment was due, or again, it would be a copy and paste answer from the assignment instructions.

My wife became ill and was hospitalized at the beginning of my third block, (two weeks after our son was born, and we also have two children in school), a person quit at the place where I worked, and life got turned upside down.  I contacted my new academic advisor to see what I should do about postponing my classes until things got back to normal, and I mentioned I wasn't withdrawing, but needing to just postpone.  She said she THOUGHT there was a form for that, but she wasn't sure where to find it, and she would ask and get back with me.  Three days later, and no reply, I sent an email asking about the form.  (I had made A's in the first four classes, and had A's in the two current classes, but I knew they were about to start slipping because I didn't have time to do the work.) 

 I received no reply, again.  Two days and five email attempts later, still nothing.  So, I called. 

 "I'm sorry.  She is no longer with us.  You've been assigned a new academic advisor."

 What?  She was only there for a week?

 So, I had to explain it all over again, to another advisor, who said, again, she would get back with me with the proper form.  Now, I was going into my third or fourth week of the block, and my grades were indeed slipping.  Another week went by, no reply, no email, no phone call,  no nothing.

The end result? By the sixth week, it was too late to file this "form," is what the next advisor told me.  It was my fault for not feeling out a withdrawal form in time, too.  I explained that hadn't been my intention, and they couldn't understand how it wasn't my intention considering I called at the beginning of class asking to withdraw.  (This is the point where a forehead slap would have come in play.)  If I had my first academic advisor, they would have known. 

Anyway . . . I ended up flunking the two classes, financial aid took back the funds for those two classes, and they sent me a bill for $1700, telling me I had to pay for those ...TWO... classes I dropped out of in the last block.  My new financial counselor was now calling me.  (They never called before.  How odd!)  She asked if I could pay half now, and the other half in a week.  If I couldn't, they would have to withdraw me from the school.  I fought with these people over this for three months, going as high as I could.  What was weird, was that I never got a new financial advisor.  This one, stayed.  I never got a reply from the rich, money grubbing people high up in the college, either.

 They in turn, sent my payment refusal to a collection agency, who had been calling me every day, claiming it was my fault for not following directions.  I explained it to them, and they said, "Well, it might not be morally right, but you legally owe the money.  Pay now, or they are going to sue."

 I said, "Sue me, so it can come out publically."

They said, "Pay now!"

 I said, "Sue."

They said, "We can keep calling you!  The law allows us!"

I said, "Sue."

You know what?  They aren't suing.  They CAN'T sue.  They don't have grounds to do it.  I had saved all the emails I sent, and I sent them to this "Alliance" company, which turned out to be an affiliation of UOP.  Ever since they received the emails, they've quit calling.

Unfortunately, they won't give me the credits I had earned.  I'm seeing what I can do about that, but I don't think it will matter.  The online state college I'm attending now said they probably would not accept the credits from UOP anyway, for various reasons.

 Here some more things to think about.  Look at all the websites that talk bad about UOP.  Have you ever noticed how many "I love it!" posts get popped into these sites, all at the same time, one right behind the other?  Well, if you do some research and read these, go to other websites that also have blogs such as these.  I have found three different blogs that have the EXACT same post, but by different people.  (Copy and paste.)  Those posts are coming from people who are getting paid by the UOP to go out and keep their name good.  They are WAY too detailed, too.  They give all this great advice, talk about everything from the beginning to the end, give class description, so on and so on.  These posts are never just "personal" experiences.  There will probably even be rebuttal post to this one, too.  It's what they do.  Also, type in AXIA on yahoo answers search area, and look to the ads on the right when the results pop up.  How many "Official Axia Website" ads do you see?  How many different addresses?  I saw three different web addresses, all claiming to be the "official site."  Why?  Because they spam and use so many advertising companies, they all ended up using yahoo at the same time.  The same happens when you type in University of Phoenix, too.  I once saw a website that was advertising them, and there were SIX different addresses.  Also, many many times, when I would go to the Axia page to log in, I kept getting other colleges they own and run through Apollo websites, Westside being the most often.  I even recieved automatic emails from Westside AND the UOP, spamming my AXIA email account about joining!!

Good luck to those who are trying to get out!  I'm at a great college now, and they even have live seminars to talk with the instructors and ask questions, etc.  Their replies to questions and assignments aren't copy and paste, either.  I'll not mention the name, though.  If I did, then someone could come back with, "you're just promoting the other school!"  :-) 

I had a great experience with the University of Phoenix; although, you do have to deal with a few mediocre students placed on some of the learning teams. Fortunately, 3 out of 4 of these identified individuals were forced to leave the program after continuous pressure to perform. I'm not sure what happened to the fourth. It appears that the preponderance of complaints are coming from students who failed to meet financial obligations. Perhaps UOP needs to begin performing credit checks to ensure prospective students have the ability to pay or at least have some sort of history of meeting monetary obligations.

Here are the facts regarding the Univ. of Phoenix and a true perspective from this UofP MBA graduate.The governments and Board of Regents that control the 'public' schools are furious when other smaller educational institutions take their students.  They are TAKING MONEY from the state schools, period.  The government has been 'in bed' with the media outlets for decades.  This is no different.Yes, the graduation rate is 16%.  Who cares, Accounting is accounting is accounting.  The debits go on the left, credits on the right.  Finance is Finance, etc.  The standards lower to get in, and then the graduation rates are very low...so what?  It's a DIFERENT business model.  IF YOU FINISH THE PROGRAM, like I did, you will have an MBA that is accredited, period.  I finished.  Don't water down my hard work because you are losing money to a for-profit organization. I work with some real bone-heads from the ‘Powerhouse’ programs (ASU, UA, American Univ., Michigan State) who are in debt up to their eyeballs, and no more ‘bright’ in the workplace, specifically with results, than the few U of P MBA’s I know.

 

Thought I’d take a few minutes and defend myself, education, and U of P.  It’s like anything else…It’s about the MONEY being lost by the other governmental institutions.  Not the quality of education, or disgruntled students.  It’s like the IRS letting the farmer get off with a $500 deduction, but no way are they going to let a $20,000 one slide untaxed!  U of P is huge…size matters…it is a threat.

The only problem that I have is that the UOP did not tell me what tests I needed to take afterwards. I have about 3 to take. I too have visited the UOP sucks site. I must say there are some truths to it while there are also some outlandish statements there. I was in the special educaton program. I have receved plenty of intervews with UOP on there and was even offered a position, even though it was rescinded because of wrong certificaton, not due to UOP. I must say to the people that are complaining about UOP: "Move on!" I must ask: "Where there any internships with the other degrees? IF not, this may be why they are not hiring you. Every professional that I have spoken to was that the school was credible. The New Jersey Department of Education would not allow them to offer education degrees here if they were not.

I just went through a horrible experience with UoP and would love to be involved in a lawsuit to get back some of my money. Please keep me in the loop and I would love to share my expience.

tlvpjr@gmail.com